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February 15, 2009

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Javier Plumey

LOL, short post.

I think for some things you're right on, especially on President Obama's failure to control his own party. President Obama was too hands off during the processing of the bill in both the House and the Senate. Had he shown the kind of leadership he promised us, I think we would have seen a much leaner bill. As it stands the bill has too much pork, too much social engineering, and not enough in the areas that are going to be the most effective, specifically, shovel-ready projects, tax cuts, and technological investments in areas where America has fallen behind the rest of the world.

I also think he made a mistake in the way he handled the Republicans. All of the Democrats involved made mere token efforts at bipartisanship. Essentially, they said that Republicans should take what they offered because "I won", I, of course, being the president, and those words being the words he used to describe why Republicans should not expect too much from their suggestions.

The Republicans are not dumb, but they certainly play the defeatist party very well. There is overwhelming evidence that the bill is not popular, even among core Obama constituents. The Republicans had fundamental issues with the bill, and rightly so, and had every right to want more debate and not to simply be dragged along for the ride. They were bullied and man-handled, but hey, they lost, right?

If the democrats had made just minor tweaks to the bill they would have had overwhelming support among the Republicans. But no, they need to return the favor to their voting constituency and stick to their far-left agenda. I agree that President Obama needs to reign in that "leftness" and prove that he can be leader, because if he can't, his presidency has already failed and the change he sought to bring to Washington will have evaporated in a cloud of leftist smoke.

I for one am not counting on the Obama administration to make good on the promises he made to the American people regarding the line-by-line bit. Had he truly wanted to do that he would started with this bill. Plus, he said he would not sign any bill until the American people have had five days to review it. Yet every bill has been signed with such expediency and, to a certain degree, secrecy, that one might think he was afraid the bill was written in vanishing ink.

And I find it a little childish to sit here and justify this massive spending bill because of what happened in the past. If it was such a bad idea, why repeat history? Let's learn from the past and stop pointing fingers. Both parties have been guilty of defecit spending, right or wrong.

I would have loved to see a bill with better tax cuts ($8.00 a paycheck and no cuts for those that own businesses--how "dumb" is that) and more shovel-ready projects. The bill is not quite "good enough". I hope it's effective but my gut instinct tells me we'll be looking at Version 2 of this document in the near future.

Joe Intili

Hmm. What an excellent comment. Makes me go, "Hmm...." And that's how I know.

Yes, well, it's a point open to debate whether or not the bill was "good enough", and I respect and appreciate the view that this bill was not.

Most of the points in this comment are inarguable, from this blogger's perspective, and that's why I like it, and largely agree with. The key point of disagreement is on the "good enough" question. I'm in agreement with the notion that we are in the midst of a shrinking window of time for stemming a deflationary spiral and rising tide of unemployment. This comment believes the bill was flawed enough for it to have been voted down, and the process of writing a proper bill iterated one more time. Certainly a place where, as they say, reasonably minds can differ.

The commentor also knows some fine details I did not, such as the tax cut only amounting to $8 a pay, and no cuts for business. If correct, and I have no reason to believe they are not, then, truly, that is fairly dumb. I heard and read time and again, though, that 40% of the cost of the stimulus bill was tax cuts, up from what the House initially included, due to input from the White House which devolved from discussions with House and Senate Republicans. It's an $800 billion stimulus. So that's a $320 billion tax cut. Pretty damn big. If it's not a cut in income or payroll taxes (a paycheck reduction) or in business taxes, then I would like to know, and will be looking into who is getting the $320 billion.

And this is a good paragraph: "And I find it a little childish to sit here and justify this massive spending bill because of what happened in the past. If it was such a bad idea, why repeat history? Let's learn from the past and stop pointing fingers. Both parties have been guilty of defecit spending, right or wrong." Point well-taken, there. It's certainly not a good idea (or helpful) to criticize Republicans for not voting for something now on the basis that it adds dramatically to the debt, simply because they have voted as recently as the previous presidency for far larger debt-inducing measures, like the $2 trillion tax cut. It's not helpful, but it's veeeery hard to resist this. One commentator on the Sunday talking head shows referred to this as, "Pot, meet kettle." But I shall try harder.

It was also a phenomenally good point, and one I attempted to make in some measure in my post, that Obama missed a fundamental opportunity to demonstrate that he means what he said during the campaign about being a deficit hawk and going through the budget line by line looking for cuts. THIS BILL was the PERFECT opportunity to demonstrate he was serious. His team could have taken an extra week to comb through the bill identifying line items which could and must be removed before he would sign the bill. The symbolism of doing such a thing on his very first appropriations bill would have been stunning, and I believe the markets would have responded favorably to it.

So, great comment. The biggest lesson for me in this comment is to stop playing "pile on" on the efforts of Republicans to be deficit hawks under this President when they were not under the previous one from their party. It's very hard not to react and respond cynically to such a thing. It would aid me in this, if Republicans themselves, their leadership, and others, when in front of the mic would acknowledge their earlier mistakes, and state publicly for the record, as Alan Greenspan has regarding certain mistakes he made leading up to this financial crisis, that their support for $2 trillion in tax cuts in the face of no offsetting budget cuts (i.e. a baldfaced addition to the debt of $2 trillion) was a mistake to the economy and to the nation, and especially to the future taxpayers who will pay it back - every cent. To poke at Republicans after such an admission would be truly petty and childish. In the absence of such admission, such pokes are perhaps a futile attempt to provoke such an admission, and, overall, unhelpful in the attempt. However I believe the benefits of such an admission could be truly stunning in desiccating, or helping to, the entrenched partisan atmosphere in Washington, and retarding the tendency of both parties to deficit spend.

Harold


What strikes me about this post is that it pits left against right, Republican against Democrats. If you did not have the money and were heavily in debt, would you recommend borrowing? Bend over, America. They are printing like never before. Regardless of party, we will all pay for this.

Joe Intili

Does it pit left against right? Does it describe how left and right pit against each other, and recommend a different course?

Jim Gordon

Our country voted for Socialism: if you want to call it that, I do not. As much as anyone can have a mandate, Obama got one.
Last I checked, monopolies are illegal, - but don't tell that to the remnants of the Bush-ites, - who've put this country in the toilet by setting up the very monopolies that we need to tear down. A bamboozled populace sits around and buys the fact that we have to "bail-out" AIG. "Right, lets give them more money, so that they can get that 1.5 million dollar 2nd quarter bonus to their mid-level-managers. (Forget about breaking up the company into smaller, customer focused entities).
The fact remains, (and no matter how much the republicans try to deny it), The new deal worked, and we need another one.

Stimulus equals spending. A stimulus bill is a spending bill. The citizens of the USA have voted for TAX INCREASES. The citizens of the USA have voted for a change away from privelege, and tax cuts. Trickle down Reaganomics DOES NOT WORK!!
It's unfortunate that the big banks and insurance companies were not regulated enough to prevent them from becoming too big to fail, and too big to vote against. Citibank, JPMorgan, and their ilk have dumped so much money into both parties: tearing them apart is going to be really hard. At the top of the pile of crap sits Tim Geitner, working against the people of our country.

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